The ONE DOOR to Customer Service with David Lord

Have you had a chance to hear our recent podcast with David Lord from Nexa? Listen to the audio here, or search for Estimate Rocket Radio on any podcast app. Enjoy the transcript below of our conversation!

Tom Droste  

I’m Tom Droste. I'm here today with David Lord from Nexa. And we're going to have a great conversation about what David's company does. And I think you'll all be kind of interested in this subject. We did a podcast on this same subject a couple of weeks ago.. We had a great time meeting you at the recent Transform Conference. How did that go for you?

David Lord  

Yeah, it was great. Tom, thanks for having me. And I am excited to talk about some of the outbound answering services and booking services Nexa offers. The Transform Conference was great. Ryan and David, those guys put on a great show. And I like those small, intimate, more intimate events. And I think it's, you know, the, the contractors that go to those events are there to grow their business, you know, it's a good mix of, you know, guys that have been doing it a while they know what they're doing, they've, they've kind of got the secret sauce, and they're willing to share it with others. And so it's a great, great opportunity to meet, you know, obviously new opportunities for us as a vendor participant, as well as meet up with existing clients. 

Tom Droste  

And there's a couple of other groups that we go to, and it's very similar, it's just so much fun, and so exciting to get with people who care about what they're doing, and really want to learn new things from their peers. It's just, it's so exciting. We have started going to this group called the SAAS Academy, which is for, you know, SAAS business owners. And it's just been really, it's so wonderful to get out in, in a place where there are other people who are going through the same things that you're going through every day and are willing to share and talk about it. And I really, really feel part of a community when you get in those and, and I always come away, jazzed up and learning something new from everyone I go to and even if the topics are not exactly in my line of business, that's a lot of fun.

David Lord  

Yeah. There's always inspiration to be taken. It started with Damien’s story of the coffee bean. Yeah, it was great. I mean, that was, that was a great way to kick it off. I was blown away by that story. So it was motivating, to say the least. Cool.

Tom Droste  

Well, can you tell us a little bit about your company, David, and you know, what you and how you got into it. And you know, how have you been doing for the last couple of years? And just you know, where are you going?

David Lord  

We like to consider ourselves more of a booking service provider, but we certainly do a lot of answering, right, so 40 plus years of growth 1500 clients across the home service industry, mainly a needs based service, we have some professional service clients as well. You know, where does that call need to be answered? Where there is growth, marketing dollars are being spent, right. So if people are spending money to grow their business, those calls are invaluable, right. And you'd like to think that a lot of potential customers will book online. And obviously, over the last kind of several years, there's been more and more advancement in web booking for contractors. But at the end of the day, when you have a leak in your house, you know, leaky roof or plumbing goes wrong, you have no air heat during that time of year, like you're looking to talk to somebody on the phone and get somebody out there who is possible, right?

Tom Droste  

You want to come in picking up the phone and not a bot and not not a form to fill out. But someone who just listened to what you're talking about.

David Lord  

And exactly, exactly. And, you know, we were talking, I listened to your other podcast about voicemails. And you know, our data shows that less than 20% of people leave a voicemail, right? So even having a voicemail setup is not really a solution when you're trying to provide a great customer experience and grow your business. Right. 

The other data point that I just think is really telling and we scored, I think 200,000 calls to come up with this number is 85% of people won't call back. So you know, I actually recently had a leak in my dining room and I called the number in Google and nobody answered my call the next guy and nobody answered called the third guy he answered, he got the job, right. And he paid. I paid a premium but I needed it fixed ASAP. And I think two days later, I got a call back from one of the numbers I called and I never heard from the other one. And these guys were spending money to advertise Google. And so, you know, it's just such a necessary service. I, you asked back to the history, I was in marketing, direct to consumer operations running kind of marketing sales, customer service organizations, for about 20 years, I joined Nexa, late last year. And I really joined because I was excited about the consumer value prop. Like we provide a very necessary service. And I think we at the time, I felt like we did it better than most. And since then, there was still a lot of opportunity for improvement. I think since then, we're really doing it better than most right, we can always get better. We're never going to say that, you know, we've reached the end, right? It's a journey, not an event. But I think we're really solid, and we're providing a great service, and we're getting better every day.

Tom Droste  

That's the goal. I mean, it's hard. Some days, it's hard to realize, hey, you know, just just a little better. You don't have to get, you don't have to, you know, leap over mountains every day. But yeah, as long as you're continually trying and continuous improvement is just, it just adds up. I mean, it really does to me. Yeah, that works.

David Lord  

Yeah, I think in our business, you know, it's really all about the technology. Right? The processes to your point about getting better every day are six sigma, you know, and the people, right? So do you hire great people to provide a good environment? Do those people create great processes, adhere to those processes, and then do great technology? And that's the technology that is such a differentiator, right? I think we're on an enterprise phone system or on an enterprise dynamic scripting tool. And those two things are, you know, if you look at the answering business historically. You know, it's fraught, not just with everybody blaming the receptionist, the person answering the phone, even in a contractor's office, like they made a mistake. Most of the time, people make mistakes, we all make mistakes, but 99% of the issues we see are really, the account was programmed wrong, right? In the dynamic scripting tool, or we weren't trained properly from the contractor telling us like, Hey, I, I do this, I do this, I don't do this. And the website doesn't give us a lot of information about that. So it's really about that like the onboarding process? Do we measure twice, cut once? Right? Do we make sure when we go from onboarding to programming, that we actually QA that work and demo it with a client. And that's been a big, a big push over the last year, again, we're gonna get better at it.

But we historically would try to sell somebody, a contractor, the service and get them live the same day, and recognize the revenue and move on to the next one. And we move that fast, we make mistakes. Just like if you're hiring a new employee, you don't put them on the phones day one and expect them to know what they're doing, you gotta train them right or not. And we've really backed up in the last, you know, since I got here, and really slowed down in that onboarding. Like I said, programming QA to really make sure when we go live, we're going live with the product that the client expects, and yeah, that's not perfect, but we're getting better.

Tom Droste  

That's a really good point. Because, I mean, personally, I struggle as a marketer. So if you come to me on two different days, and ask me what we do, I'm probably going to tell you something, but depending upon, you know, what I looked at that day, or whatever, how I'm feeling that, you know, jazzed up or whatever. But it's really, really important. And I think a lot of our, our contractor customers, don't understand it, or don't have the depth to do it. And it's hard, I'll, you know, freely admit, I have a hard time doing it, too. But you probably help them tell their story better, because you're listening in and almost interviewing them from the standpoint of what do you do? What don't you do? And I'm sure as they go through that, you know, that by itself could be a very valuable process to these customers, just so that they learn how to talk about it. And you know, it would be I think that, by itself, would be hugely valuable to them.

David Lord  

Tom, you It's funny, I was talking to a prospective, actually a partner last week, a prospective partner of ours, and I was saying exactly what you just said is half the conversation gets the business owner thinking about their internal processes and going, Oh, I should change that, you know, to this best practice, you know, and I think that's a struggle that we have right is like we have our way that we do booking really well we can schedule at a high rate handle it really well. And it is pretty boxed in and when contractors say Hey, this is the way I like to do it. You know, we sometimes struggle to say, I know you'd like to do it that way. You've had a lot of answering services that didn't do a great job for you. It's because they tried to mirror that if we go this way we will perform and to your point earlier, we'll answer those calls, and we'll get you right. And so it is that you know all about just helping everybody get their business super formato that level?

Tom Droste  

Yeah, very, very fascinating. Are there? Why do you think that? Contractors just don't want to hire someone to do this? I mean, I see especially people starting up where they can't afford that admin person yet or that person to help them answer the phone yet. And I mean, even at a starting point, that's got to be a benefit, but that huge benefit for their businesses and their growth, because they can't afford a full timer at that point. But, man, I just, I don't. What do you think they're so reluctant to do?

David Lord  

You know, I mean, I think it is a differentiator between the successful entrepreneur who goes out, starts small and grows their business and what their self reflection is, if you will, versus ones that are, you know, the ones that are really adamant that like, it never makes sense. It never makes sense. So the ones you see at events year after year, predominantly, that don't grow, and they're not, maybe we don't see them at sales transformation more than once, right? Because I think they don't, they think they can do it. All right. And I think the successful entrepreneurs realize they know what they do really well. plumbing, roofing, you know, developing talent, you know, answering the phones, you know, booking appointments is not an expertise, marketing, right, like, I get asked a lot about when we're talking to industry, like how many of how many of these contractors have internal marketing teams versus how many, you know, use third parties. 

And it's always interesting to me that I don't know your thoughts on this one. But the majority of the ones I've spoken to always use third parties, they have an internal marketing director, but they're managing agencies that help them with brands with paid search. And I think those are the successful entrepreneurs who also realize that if I'm spending money to grow my business, I need to make sure that I'm answering those calls, right? And if I'm a, if I'm one truck, going out on my own, you know, or maybe two trucks, you know, am I handing that phone to my wife, brother, sister, friend, receptionist myself, you know, especially emergency services, where calls come in overnight, those are valuable. You hear that debate? i often give up on the emergency stuff and do more new bills because it's killing me waking up in the middle of the night. I always tell them not to have two businesses, and we can handle the overnight and make it easier. 

And you know, the pricing is a fraction, right? You hire a full time person with benefits with training with turnover. You know, the benefit of working with us is we're handling all of that, right? And we just bill you for what you use, right? You use the minutes, we believe you if you don't you can change month to month. Right? You know, and as you scale, we can do fixed headcount, we can do hybrid. Yeah, we have multiple different solutions, given the goals of the contractor. But back to your question of why they don't use us. I mean, I just think some of them, you know, mistake the opportunity cost for the cost.

Tom Droste  

Yeah, we started up Logical Engine about 10 years ago now and Estimate Rocket has been around for about seven years. And I remember when I was looking for phone systems for the company. So I was looking at RingCentral and Telzio. And I ultimately went with Telzio. Sort of for the reason you just said where you can you have more flexibility with the minutes, you know, you may waste a few minutes this month or that month, but you're not paying for for minutes you never use with a per seat model that you know, because our volumes were low at that time of calls, it was really, we were talking about minutes, not hours of call time that we're doing. So it's interesting. I mean, there's so many different models now of being able to acquire services that there's almost no service that isn't that you can't get that's priced reasonably for your model might be different companies that are offering but you know, everybody can find that fit, where they can buy the amount of service that they need. And I think that's, that's a huge change from, you know, years ago when you had to buy all in or, you know, back at what you needed.

David Lord  

Yeah, totally. I think it's, you know, it really is everything from after hours overflow, lunchtime calls, you know, your clients that do $2 million, a million dollars in revenue, they're just starting out or last and we have hundreds of millions of dollars and they have their own call centers, but they need outbound membership looking calls made we can handle that. Right. So it is I think for us, it's, it's being flexible in the solutions we can provide but within those solutions, how Having a real product, right? Like we're very productized in the things we do, we just offer a lot of products.

Tom Droste  

Yeah, no, but that really helps. I mean, it makes you more, it makes your offerings apply to more people. And, and for you, I'm sure it's you know, adjusting and balancing your internal staff. But in some respects, it may work out well for you too, because you can, you don't need one, you don't need to dedicate one person to that to account A. You can dedicate a quarter to a person, because the rest of that person's time can be divided among other companies. So you get your get, you're able to be efficient, and they're able to be cost effective. It's really kind of a beautiful model.

David Lord  

Exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. I will say I do think that it's important, because some of our competitors have, you know, agents that are handling calls for law firms for hospitals, and for Home Services, we are focused 100% Nexa. In Home Services, the agents handling home service calls are handling home service calls, not legal or medical separate groups. So we do keep it separate in terms of the vertical that they're under. Here, they're taking one to many rights one agent could take, you know, 50 calls in a day from 50 different, you know, contracts, right?

Tom Droste  

Yeah, and they get that's good for you, because you're your, you know, your team gets domain experience that they can build up on in the trades. Whereas if you were answering all the you know, the person calling the legal firm, actually expects a very different tone, and demeanor and, and script, if you will, that's going to make them feel comfortable, then the person calling a contractor or you know, virtually any other business you call everybody expects a certain type of Sir level of service from who their target is that their calling? Absolutely makes a lot of sense, you'd almost have to if you did want to go to another area, you'd have to almost make a new division that was you know, just this other branch or trade or whatever the you that, you know, look look attractive to the dive into really, really pretty neat stuff. So what do you guys do? What services do you offer? Just to kind of list that out, you get into VA services as well. And in addition to calling services you are pretty much in the call services only er.

David Lord  

I think, you know, it's interesting when you say virtual assistants versus virtual receptionists, and I think some of it's just nomenclature and terminology. So we do your basics, take a message, that message can be then dispatched via a text via an email, we have a portal where people can get it, or it can be a call transfer, right? So we can do you know, that application could be screening, right? So hey, I want to press one for sales, I want to make sure when that call comes in that you qualify it, and it is a sales opportunity and then transfer it to my salesperson or right where we've taken it, the next level is booked the appointment right so we can go in and we call that our booking services and go in and book that appointment on the client's behalf, then we have lead form follow up. 

So you have a website that has a lead form on it, or you're doing Yelp or Angie's advertising, that speed of the lead is so critical, right? I think the data point I saw was a 400% increase in conversion rate, if you call them within five minutes. So right, so what we do is we take that lead form and we ingest it into our dialing system. And then we dial that and book the appointment or you know, triage it and then transfer it to the contractor depending on what they want us to do. Those are kind of the core services. We have a People Powered chat platform that we also run on behalf of clients and that's really a lead gen chat platform so it's really easy to discern pretty quickly. Is this a new sales or an existing customer? What do they want and really turn that into a booked appointment or a lead for the contractor?

Tom Droste  

Is that where that is on their website? They get a you know, a chat chat box and they can you man those live calls. That's brilliant too, because that's another that dovetails right into your existing services. So that makes total sense because we

David Lord  

call our solute sorry, go ahead, Tom.

Tom Droste  

No, no, I was just saying it dovetails right into the rest of your solution. And you know, I know in our in our world from a customer success standpoint, we would rather be chatting and the main reason for that is not because we don't like to talk on the phone but because when we're a lot of these things are back and forth were try this and they go try that and you can have you can be running a couple of those at a time because it takes The customer a little while to go through it. Whereas when you're on the phone, you're on the phone for an hour, you know, and being on the phone for an hour isn't really productive for either of you in the long run. 

So, you know, we find there's, you know, there's a time for calls. But there's also a time when the chat I mean, our company internally, we use a tool called slack. And it's brilliant, because you don't have to wait I can slack one of the guys on message, you know, a little while there, get out of doing what they're doing, they message me back, you know, if it's urgent, you pick up the phone or you do a quick, you know, voice huddle. But other than that the Chinese mirror can be really, really effective.

David Lord  

Yep, no, it's one too many, like you said, so you can have one agent handling many chats, and it is, you know, depending, again, if it's an emergency service, it tends to be they want to pick up the phone and call it's, you know, the chats not absolutely no solution. But you know, back to your point on the things we do we call it Engagement Services. So your marketing services were Engagement Services, so we will once you get them found we're gonna get them booked, right, it's kind of been our, our push, but you'd be surprised how many different kinds of you know, virtual assistant type of things we do and in different for different clients, right. A lot of its membership follow up, right, we can do cold calls outbound this time of year is obviously a big membership list trying to get in for service appointments, and, you know, keep the trough you know, to keep the board busy. So

Tom Droste  

You have folks that do the ongoing service where they'll give you the list, and you'll just go and book the appointments for him that they know should be coming up or like Reaser annual service calls and that kind of thing that you're used to, that's huge. A

David Lord  

lot of it a lot of, you know, there's been a lot of consolidation in our space, as you know, and a lot of times they'll acquire, you know, one contractor will acquire another contractors business, and they'll call those clients and try to, you know, reactivate them getting housed or you familiar, do welcome calls, do thank you calls. And so we do a lot of that. Yeah.

Tom Droste  

Wow. That's brilliant. Yeah, like that. So it's nice when you get to repurpose a little bit and kind of, you know, jump into other certain things that you say, Wow, we didn't think there was any money in that. But turns out there is. Yeah,

David Lord  

yeah, there is. There's, I mean, it's all it's all a cost, right. So there's that cost benefit analysis, but there's a lot of work to be done on the phones these days. So, yeah,

Tom Droste  

there really is, I think, I think a lot of in a lot of people don't you mentioned that. You know, people don't even leave a message now. And that's, like, one of my major pet peeves is, when someone calls me and they don't leave me a message. I'm not going to call them back. I figured you pocket dial me if you don't leave me a message, yet. They'll you know, the worst thing for me is they get a phone call. They don't leave a voice message. And then they text you saying, Well, I didn't answer the call. So I'm in the middle of something, you know, so

David Lord  

it is interesting, there's two perspectives, right? Like, that's, I'm with you, right? Like, I don't know, if there's no voicemail and may or may not call you back. I'm getting older. I don't leave voicemails, like I used to. I just call like, you know, my kids. Yeah. Janet, those three generations in between myself and are two like they are, it's a different expectation. And we're seeing that with our clients, right? I have. I mean, even some of our larger clients who I give out, my cell phone too, and they're welcome, text me, I'll find them. They tax they don't call me and they use, you know, they find me on Facebook or Instagram, I'm doing more kind of customer engagement over Facebook and Instagram than I've done. I ever thought I would do a V engagement on social media just because, you know, I'm found there. And it's interesting how times are changing, you know,

Tom Droste  

and it's wild, constantly. And, and, and sometimes they recycle. You know, you see things that go out of fashion often. Hey, they're doing that. Right?

David Lord  

Yeah. It's like the bell bottom jeans, right? Yeah.

Tom Droste  

Those bad boys never know when they're gonna come back. Love it. Can you talk a little bit about what you know, what you see as the long range benefits for your customers? I think this is one of those things where people don't have a hard time visualizing, I think how valuable you know, the service that you guys offer and what the long range benefits are.

David Lord  

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I was listening to the podcast you talked about or somebody on one of your other podcasts talked about how every call is worth $400 to Yeah. Yeah. And I was talking to a large e track player And they were saying that they're now viewing the lifetime value of a client or revenue of a client at $75,000. Wow. Right. Yeah. And I think what that means is you have to acquire a client, and then you have to retain that client, right? For, you know, six 810 years, right? You know, really, in this business and with the consolidation, maybe this isn't true anymore. But if the client stays in your geography in your zip blessed in your city, right, they should be a client of yours, right? They shouldn't go to a new roofer, a new, you know, plumber, a new age pack a new garage door, like if they're staying somewhere you service, they should be your client, if they move out of state and you don't service that state, okay, then you lose them. Right. 

But, you know, you control if they stay in that geography, it's, it's 100%, up to you to maintain them as a client. How do you do that? Right, like, you stay top of mind, right. So some of its marketing, some of its staying relevant. But a big part of that is just a great customer experience. Obviously, when you're at the location you're face to face, that's the name and the face, they remember. But again, if they have a long hold time, when they call, right, they have a negative experience over the phone. And that negative experience is usually heightened by the fact that it took forever for someone to answer or nobody answered, and I had to wait for a callback. I think it's something like 46% of people said they wouldn't deal with a company, if they had a negative call experience. I really think that, you know, it comes down to the customer experience side of that business.

 And really that, you know, and some of that's having websites where people can schedule service calls, but it's it's doing those, the basic playbook, right, getting people on membership plans, calling them and making sure you get in the house for that membership service, when they call in making sure that phone is answered. Right. And, and I think that's, that's the key for the future, for sure, is just making sure those engagement points where the client wants to engage you have in front of the client, and that you're, you know, when when you have those engagements you have they have a positive experience or a delightful experience, right? Negative positive review.

Tom Droste  

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's the other, that's another one, that's kind of interesting, because I know, you talked about the negative phone experience. And I don't know what the percentages are, but the propensity of a person to leave a negative review how much higher that is, than then then getting a good review for the good deed, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of frustrating at times, because you work really hard to, you know, to put out a good persona and a good product and a good experience. And, and boy, the negatives just just really, really kill you. You know, it's just, it's tough. Like he said, a lot of the time you get, you're getting calls. 

As I tell you know, I try to keep this customer successful. People, you know, are a little jazzed up, because I say, Look, people don't go to the doctor, because they're feeling great. People go to the doctor, because they have a problem. So out of the gate, when someone's, you know, messaging in or calling in, they're not happy already. And, you know, it's because they're having a problem. So you got to think of it like, okay, they're like, people going to the doctor, they got a problem, they're looking for some help for it. And it's hard to be 100% Positive. Because sometimes you just, you know, like,

David Lord  

those, those, you know, it tells me you make a great point, if you don't work, and you know, you're on the marketing side, and you know, this, but I think for your listeners, like if you're not soliciting positive reviews, you're only going to get negative reviews, right? Because unless somebody asks you 99% of people aren't going to go out of their way to leave a positive review, when they had a great experience. 99% of people are gonna leave a negative review when they had a bad experience. Right. And so I think, you know, it is something that we actually suffered from before I got to the company. We had some bad experiences over the years, and we didn't work on our reviews and we had not very many, and it was just negative. 

And you know, we have 1500 customers, right? Sure we make mistakes, we have customers that leave us but we wouldn't have 1500 customers in the home service space. If we were all, if we were the 32 negative reviews we had right so we started going to our customers to say hey, did I do a good job? Yes. Can you do it? Just leave me a good review. And we moved the needle. I wouldn't say overnight, but over six months, we still got work to do. But you know, you got to ask for those positive reviews or you're just gonna end up with with you know, the bad ones which isn't a fair reflection of anybody's

Tom Droste  

we're actually starting on a mission for that too. It's just you know, you have to Yeah, it's one of those things you just have to keep doing and I always waffle on the side, well, I don't want to keep bugging my customers, you know. And so there's that fine line of asking too many times, but you know, it really, you do have to do it. Because otherwise, ultimately, if people aren't giving you good reviews, people are going to read the bad reviews. And then the people who love you, and aren't giving you good reviews are not going to have any place to go. Exactly God, you know. So we

David Lord  

actually, we don't, we don't do a great job of marketing it. But we actually have a review platform. And we started using it internally for ourselves. And it works great, it plugs into your CRM, in our case, Salesforce, whenever we close a case or close when a sale, it fires a text to the client that says, hey, thank you, for the for the business, Tom really appreciate it would mean a lot to me if you'd leave a review. And if we don't hear from them, then two days later, it sends like, hey, just following up, you know, we'd really love a review. And then it does it a third time. Last time, I'm not going to bother you, Tom just wanted to, you know, request for review. If you have a chance, love to click here and leave us one if not totally understand. And it really is. It's that simple. And there's a lot, you know, there's a lot of platforms out there that do that. And I am a big fan that any any contract or any business should be doing that if they are,

Tom Droste  

These are the real sheds, it's just you can't, can't get along without them anymore. There's just too much negative noise out there. If you're not doing that, sadly. It's fun, always a challenge.

David Lord  

I think having a service like ours is necessary for 99% of the businesses out there, right? I'm sure there's 1% that aren't. If you can staff a call center, 50 people 24/7 365. All the power to you, right, you're at scale, that's great. I still think there are events, natural disasters, hurricanes that come through and, and having a backup is important. I think one of the differentiators for us is we're nationwide, we're in 36 states of the US. So we don't have a call center location for people. And the nice thing about that, you know, you're in Boston, we have a large client up outside Boston. And you know, if they have a hailstorm and ice storm, and we were in Boston, we'd be impacted as well, right? We'd have absenteeism through the roof. 

So the time they need us, we would be down, right? If they're, you know, even to the point of their carriers and their phone systems may have significant issues during those and we would be impacted and being covered across the country really provides a redundant solution that's truly redundant. So I think that's huge, you know, some things I would just share with everybody is you should have a service. I'd love it if it's us. If it's not us, that's fine. There are other competitors of ours that I think do a decent job, I always think we're better. But I think you evaluate them for three things, right? Like, what's the technology? Do you really understand what technology they're using? Right? Yeah. You know, you talk about price. If you're paying a premium, it should be world class technology.

It shouldn't be enterprise software, it should be documented, followed processes, and it should be really high caliber talent that's dedicated to the kind of verticals that you're in. And I think if you if you start looking and asking those questions, as you're evaluating partners, and I'm saying partners for answering services, probably very similar for a lot of the SAS, really a lot of the partners that contractors are going to choose right, are they what's the technology, the security is obviously huge? Are they sought to compliant? Are they multi factor authentication? You know, what are the agents using? Obviously, we've all been getting blown up by cyber attacks, you know, personally, and our texts and our email and our phone. So what level of sophistication is there when at the partners you're looking to use or who you're using today? So I think that's, you know, that's what I would pry.

Tom Droste  

And that's actually, that's actually an excellent point, is security. And I think a lot of people are not security conscious at all, and they're not security conscious at all until they get burned. And then it's, you know, there's some catastrophes I have, we've, I've had some people that work with me who've had personal, you know, major problems. And it's, it's terrifying, it's it, you just, you cannot be too cautious. And it's just, it's just hard to explain how many ways bad people are trying to get into your systems. Any closing, closing thoughts?

David Lord  

I really appreciate you having me. If anyone wants to learn more, you know, nexa.com it's really easy and esa.com Reach out to me on LinkedIn and Get in touch with us. We'd love to talk about how we can help grow their business. So I appreciate you having my

Tom Droste  

pleasure. It was a great talk and I look forward to doing that again.